DUST Search - Breach AR is overperforming compared to normal AR

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

Once I get home in a day or two, I'm going to run some tests on the Breach PR and normal PR and see about crunching some numbers for a fix. The end goal is to decrease it's dps while also increasing the range, making it function like a RR while still holding to Gallente battle philosophy of high damage low range. Ideally, it should have the longest range of the PR variants, but the shortest range of the racial breach variants.

Actually, it doesn't need a longer range...
Breach isn't longer range.
Breach is just higher damage and slower rate of fire, usually with a smaller mag and tighter hipfire.

No breach variants of the other weapons have longer ranges. None. Long range isn't a breach trait. In fact, breach and assault variant always have the same range. The ARR has the same range as the RR, for example.
Breach and Assault SMG
Breach and Assault ScP
Breach and Assault Forge Gun
Breach and Assault Mass Driver
All the same range.
The Breach AR should have the same range as the regular AR.

The "Breach" Rail Rifle only has a longer range because it is Caldari, not because it is a breach weapon.

To get an idea of what a breach weapon should behave like:
GÇóSame range as Assault Variant, if there is an Assault Variant
--If there is no Assault Variant, its range should be determined by race and DPS/Range profile, so far the only oddity in this category has been the Breach Shotgun, because there is not Assault Shotgun(although I expect the Assault shotgun will have the same range as the Breach shotgun).
GÇó It should hit harder than the base variant, but fire slower.
GÇóIt should retain the same firing mode as the Basic Variant. Breach ScR should be semiautomatci, and Breach CR should be Burst, as examples.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8110	Posted - 2014.10.25 14:05:00 - [1] - Quote You know how I love my plasma rifles and I told you from the beginning that the Burst AR was terrible Ark, even with the improvements it just isn't there yet. Same with all the other Plasma Rifles besides the breach. Breach is where it needs to be, it is the other variants that need to he improved. Plasma Assault Rifle - It's so close to being perfect I'm not sure what to add, maybe slightly more RoF? Tactical Plasma Rifle - Just slightly more range, just under the Rail Rifle. That's all the weapon needs. Burst Plasma Rifle - Just more Damage, I'm fine with the delay interval and should not be touched, neither should the range. I've used the Plasma Rifle since I started this game two years ago and it never stopped being my primary weapon, even when it sucked. Just throwing that out there. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8110	Posted - 2014.10.25 14:18:00 - [2] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: The breach needs a slight nerf, other than that they are fine. They already have more dps and more damage per clip than all the other rifles, except maybe the scrambler. more DPS, less range is literally what the Plasma Rifles are about. That's a pretty even trade. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8112	Posted - 2014.10.25 16:05:00 - [3] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: This is the biggest Gallente circle jerk I've ever seen. Kirk suggested giving the TacAR more range than the ScR. When you guys are left unchecked, you just want GallenteOPness. Check yourself before you start to ** me off Fizzer. The last thing I want is for the Plasma Rifle to get be OP and as far as the TAC AR goes, it has much more recoil than either one of those so good luck keeping tabs on your target. You can't spam it from range with no feedback from your aim going everywhere like you can the scrambler rifle and rail rifle. Get your head out of your ass because if you did you'd see that our weapons have been ** for the longest of times up until very, very recently. I want to male damn sure that the Duvolle Tactical doesnt become god mode again because we damn sure we don't need that nor the Breach rifle to god mode where it was, which I fought against both avidly on the forums. Get your personal biases of your Amarr bullshit out of the way, Incubus doesnt get its bonus, there's no Methana II, and most Plasma Rifles suck for the most part all those problems just happen to be Gallente but I'm all for a buff to The ARR as proposed in another thread. You dont see us asking for buffs to the madrugar, nor anymore buffs to the plasma cannon because that would obviously be greedy. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8113	Posted - 2014.10.25 16:25:00 - [4] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: don't make me laugh. This game has been Ar 514 from closed beta until 1.7. You want to hear something even more funny? The fact that you think you know what you're talking about. Gtfo Plasma Rifle was the only general purpose rifle we had for the longest of time, and after several balance issues like I previously stated with the Breach and Tactical things were somewhat stable for the most part. Sharpshooter skill was excessive for everything and that's why that was canned. Everybody bitched and moaned about the amount of plasma rifles on the field, yet no one asked why. 1 people were already skilled into it and BPO were available for them everywhere and it was on all suits that CCP gave to you outside of the sniper and Anti vehicle fit so no ** there were a whole lot more on the field. People cried for a Nerf because it was too frequent on the field, the the last Nerf that people cried for never happened (thank *** god) but the other rifles were introduced. Suddenly after these obviously OP rifles were introduced no one said ** about the Plasma rifle but even better, people said the Combat Rifle was balanced and some even said the RR was balanced at the time. You want something to laugh about? The poor half-assed thought processes of this community is something to laugh about and it's hilarious. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8113	Posted - 2014.10.25 16:32:00 - [5] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: It isn't just the majority though. Its the vast majority. Like 90% of the fights I come across, against any other weapon. This thing is a win button at any range under 40m. It just shoudnt be this... easy... to do this well, on a toon with only 3m SP, with a standard BrAR on an Amarr Assault. I'm practically right out of the academy still, and I'm topping the leaderboards against anything that comes against me. Sorry to say it, but the BrAR is overperforming in CQC. I know you would like to say that that is impossible Cat, but you're about as biased as they come. I even bought the Quafe G-1 just so that I could make better use of the thing eventually. I just need to skill into it now(my next SP goes there). Thing needs a Nerf. Lets see. Experienced player, goes back into academy to stomp new players. Is surprised that he's on the top of the leader boards. I did the same thing with Ion Pistol just to test hit detection and I was out of Academy in 5 matches. anecdotal evidence is yummy. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8113	Posted - 2014.10.25 16:38:00 - [6] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: kind of like how you guys are saying the ar needs a buff Depends on which AR which youre not explaining. No one is advising a buff to the breach here, in fact the OP was talking about a mag reduction for it. I said in my first post here before the scuba came in that balancing the Basic Plasma rifle had to be careful because its so close to perfect now (if anything the Gallente assault bonus would be the answer to that problem to stay away from touching the gun itself) Tactical Assault rifle and Burst assault rifle are underperforming which is what I'm talking about and Rattati even said it himself. there's a more in debt answer to your overgeneralized question. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8113	Posted - 2014.10.25 16:43:00 - [7] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: It isn't just the majority though. Its the vast majority. Like 90% of the fights I come across, against any other weapon. This thing is a win button at any range under 40m. It just shoudnt be this... easy... to do this well, on a toon with only 3m SP, with a standard BrAR on an Amarr Assault. I'm practically right out of the academy still, and I'm topping the leaderboards against anything that comes against me. Sorry to say it, but the BrAR is overperforming in CQC. I know you would like to say that that is impossible Cat, but you're about as biased as they come. I even bought the Quafe G-1 just so that I could make better use of the thing eventually. I just need to skill into it now(my next SP goes there). Thing needs a Nerf. Lets see. Experienced player, goes back into academy to stomp new players. Is surprised that he's on the top of the leader boards. I did the same thing with Ion Pistol just to test hit detection and I was out of Academy in 5 matches. anecdotal evidence is yummy. So apparently full squads of FA are "new players"? I'm not in the academy anymore, I'm playing normal pubs. I'll admit, my experience is a factor, but I'm doing better with this BrAR than I was doing with my Assault Ak.0 and Viziam before I biomassed. I'll admit that some of our new members are terrible. But that's not the point. I dont know what engagements your fighting in and I dont know what engagements you fought with the scrambler in. If you fought CQC with the Scarmbler like you would the Breach then there's the obvious answer. If you did it vice versa...well you couldn't. If the issue the Assault Scrambler sucking (which it kinda does) then that's not another weapons fault. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8113	Posted - 2014.10.25 16:58:00 - [8] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Personally I feel the breach PR should get a range increase and DPS decrease. Breach weapons are based off of the RR, which is low DPS high range. The Breach AR should mimic that. ^ You and i have the same thoughts I've wondered that myself. At first I assumes the Tactical was supposed to be the rail rifle equivalent and Breach the Scrambler until the Devs stated otherwise. Still a bit confused by that but I can get behind this. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8113	Posted - 2014.10.25 17:24:00 - [9] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: [quote=hfderrtgvcd] Tactical Assault rifle and Burst assault rifle are underperforming which is what I'm talking about and Rattati even said it himself. there's a more in debt answer to your overgeneralized question. I agree on the TAR, but why the burst? It isn't inferior on any aspects to the standard one. Burst is kinda bad. Tried it on my Gal scout breach is way better I can't put my finger on the Burst. If it had more RoF it would be better, but that's getting into Minmatars area too much. More damage might make it OP if overdone. The Burst PR is a odd one, at least to me. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8129	Posted - 2014.10.27 12:46:00 - [10] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Once I get home in a day or two, I'm going to run some tests on the Breach PR and normal PR and see about crunching some numbers for a fix. The end goal is to decrease it's dps while also increasing the range, making it function like a RR while still holding to Gallente battle philosophy of high damage low range. Ideally, it should have the longest range of the PR variants, but the shortest range of the racial breach variants. Actually, it doesn't need a longer range... Breach isn't longer range. Breach is just higher damage and slower rate of fire, usually with a smaller mag and tighter hipfire. No breach variants of the other weapons have longer ranges. None. Long range isn't a breach trait. In fact, breach and assault variant always have the same range. The ARR has the same range as the RR, for example. Breach and Assault SMG Breach and Assault ScP Breach and Assault Forge Gun Breach and Assault Mass Driver All the same range. The Breach AR should have the same range as the regular AR. The "Breach" Rail Rifle only has a longer range because it is Caldari, not because it is a breach weapon. To get an idea of what a breach weapon should behave like: GÇóSame range as Assault Variant, if there is an Assault Variant --If there is no Assault Variant, its range should be determined by race and DPS/Range profile, so far the only oddity in this category has been the Breach Shotgun, because there is not Assault Shotgun(although I expect the Assault shotgun will have the same range as the Breach shotgun). GÇó It should hit harder than the base variant, but fire slower. GÇóIt should retain the same firing mode as the Basic Variant. Breach ScR should be semiautomatci, and Breach CR should be Burst, as examples. The new officer shotgun is the only assault shotgun in the game. Could use that as comparison CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.